the one80 group
[Session Moderator] Welcome to "Marketing on a Shoestring Budget" with Tina Kersen.
[Session Moderator] Allow me to introduce Tina.
[Session Moderator] Tina Kersen loves the dynamics of today's evolving accounting firm. An entrepreneur, with a background in human resources and market research, Tina brings a unique perspective to marketing.
[Session Moderator] She has published articles about outsourcing, employee retention, employee morale, and financial strategies. She is currently the president of the one80 group, a marketing and corporate communications consulting company, based in Dallas, Texas.
[Session Moderator] She is the former marketing director for TravisWolff, the 10th largest public accounting firm in Dallas, Texas. There, Tina developed external marketing and employee morale programs. In the three years she was marketing director, the firm more than doubled its gross revenue.
[Session Moderator] She holds an interdisciplinary degree with emphases in behavior analysis, psychology, business, and disaster management.
[Session Moderator] Tina - the floor is yours!
[Tina Kersen] Good afternoon all! I'm happy to be here this afternoon. Before we get started, I'd like to ask what you are looking for this afternoon from our workshop.
[Tina Kersen] I want to be sure I deliver what you want!
[Session Moderator] Yes, what does everyone want to cover?
[Jami Fultz] Doubling MY firm's gross revenue would be nice!
[Tina Kersen] Yes, wouldn't it?
[David D. Hill] How to effectively access newspaper reporters and get our name in print.
[Session Moderator] David - I think that is true for all of us.
[Alicia Olesinski] What are they looking for? How do we get our firm noticed and in print?
[Tina Kersen] Okay, good. Sounds like we are all on the same page. Let's get started. And feel free to ask questions throughout the session.
[Tina Kersen] As a former marketing director in an accounting firm, I definitely understand tight budgets and the expectation to produce results with a small budget.
[Tina Kersen] Today, I thought we would explore ideas that don't cost a lot of money, but do require some of your time.
[Tina Kersen] How many of you have a goal of getting more press coverage for your firm? How many of you use reprints from articles in your marketing kits?
[Jami Fultz] We do.
[Session Moderator] Reprints are very popular.
[Tina Kersen] This is a low cost way to establish your firm as an expert, but how do you get in front of the press decision makers?
[Tina Kersen] It's pretty easy and the fact that you aren't a PR person is a plus for you. The first thing you have to do is think like a reporter. For a moment, take off your marketing director hat and put on the reporter hat. The reporter is looking for a scoop - a hot story. He's going to look good to his editor if he comes up with something that no one else is doing, right? Well, this is your chance to be a reporter's resource.
[Tina Kersen] Basically, you want to help the reporter do his/her job. You want to be on the lookout for stories that will help the reporter get the scoop. The stories may be from inside your firm, but they could also be inside your clients' firm, or they may even be inside a prospects' company. While getting PR for a client or a prospect may not sound like a direct route to getting attention for your firm, it is.
[David D. Hill] We want to be looked at as experts in the various fields we work within.
[Tina Kersen] Good point, David. A third party reprint will certainly do that for you!
[Caroline Thomas] That's right, I was once a newspaper reporter and understanding what they're looking for has been a BIG help
[Tina Kersen] Essentially, you are developing a relationship with the reporter as a valued news source. Keep in mind that reporters are bombarded by PR people and others who want to selfishly exploit the press. You want to set yourself apart from those types. You want to appear as unbiased as possible and stick to the facts.
[Tina Kersen] Thanks Caroline - I appreciate that perspective.
[Tina Kersen] For example, I was at a lunch with several reporters and mentioned something I thought would make a great story. I didn't "pitch" the story, I simply made them aware of it. Then I waited for them to ask me for more information. That's the difference. I'm looking out for them, not for myself. Reporters know people and if you come at them with any other intention than that which is honest, they'll run the other direction.
[Caroline Thomas] Yes, trying to establish you and your firm as a credible source for info. is a good way to get in front of the media.
[Tina Kersen] Caroline, don't you agree that establishing an unbiased approach is key?
[Tina Kersen] The other thing you want to remember about working with reporters is that they are busy. If you think you are busy, multiply that by about 100 and you have the media trying to stay on top of the information overload. They have deadlines and the last thing they need is someone constantly following up asking if they are going to cover the story. When you hand off the idea, your job is done unless they need more information.
[Session Moderator] That's an excellent point!
[Tina Kersen] Trust me, they will contact you if they are interested. If they aren't, don't bug them. In the end, it's what they think is interesting that matters. If you study newspapers, soon you will be able to discern what is news and what isn't. You may think that your new consulting offering is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but will the paper's readers? If it isn't truly different, probably not. Be critical of your stories so you maintain selectivity.
[Caroline Thomas] Absolutely. The best way to get in front of the media is to stay abreast of current issues within your industry that will affect the media's readership
[Tina Kersen] And that brings us to another distinction. Angles. If I go to a reporter and simply tell him about a new service the firm offers, he has to think about how that affects other companies and, initially, he may view it as advertising.
[Tina Kersen] However, if I go to him and tell him about this new service that is helping pre-IPO companies avoid all the red tape of IPOs, the reporter can then see that this is a hot topic affecting a lot more companies than just an accounting firm. That's how you develop an angle.
[Tina Kersen] At this point, you are thinking like a reporter - you are helping them do their job.
[Caroline Thomas] Think like a reporter - it's got to have a "third party" sound to it or it's just self or firm serving
[Tina Kersen] Does this make sense? Yes, Caroline - you are right on.
[Tina Kersen] Any questions?
[Jami Fultz] I'm trying to establish "lunch" relationships between our accountants and media contacts. Do you have any pointers in this arena?
[Tina Kersen] Jami, explain what you mean by "lunch" relationships.
[Caroline Thomas] Don't offer to buy their lunch - let them buy their own - take a small hand written agenda that only you reference - if you have newspaper experience, share it with them - they love it!
[Jami Fultz] Like you mentioned earlier, you were having lunch with some reporters. I want to develop friendly relationships so they will be more inclined to listen to our suggestions.
[Paul Dunn] hello from Australia.
[Christy Matheson] Caroline, I'm interested to know why you wouldn't recommend buying their lunch
[Caroline Thomas] Because it's perceived that you're trying to buy them
[Tina Kersen] I see. To be honest, I think it works best if you have one or two people within your firm that develop very strong relationships and then offer to have your accountants be sources.
[Session Moderator] I think it also depends on how strong the relationship is, right Tina?
[Tina Kersen] This way, you avoid diluting your efforts. There are only so many reporters to go around and you want them to see YOU as the point person.
[Caroline Thomas] It's always worked best for me to be the communication hub
[Tina Kersen] Absolutely, SM.
[Jerry L Foster] Has any firm successfully used the Internet to market their practice?
[Tina Kersen] Jami, spend your time being THE resource and your firm will reap the rewards - that includes the accountants and partners.
[Bob Hancock] How do you suggest trying to get published with articles already written?
[Tina Kersen] So, think like a reporter. Learn how the newspaper works. Request editorial calendars. And start developing relationships with reporters.
[Anne Stanton] Has anyone found any good places to post free press releases?
[Tina Kersen] Bob, if you have articles that are already written, I would suggest that you start with industry publications for your firm's niche areas.
[Tina Kersen] These publications often need well-written articles by experts and usually all it takes is a call to the editor.
[Anne Stanton] Posting your own articles to a press section on your web page is something that works well for us.
[Kristi Wertz] Does anyone else use PR Newswire?
[Tina Kersen] Speaking of calls... how are you all getting in front of the press and media?
[Session Moderator] Yes, and make sure that the area is not necessarily password-protected, right Tina?
[Tina Kersen] Definitely, SM. Your virtual press room should be available to the public.
[Anne Stanton] What is the web address for PR Newswire?
[Tina Kersen] Well, it's as simple as making a phone call or sending an email. Reporters tend to veer toward email. It doesn't require immediate attention and it can wait until midnight or later when they have a chance to take a look at it. The primary thing you want to keep in mind when it comes to email is to keep it simple. Don't neglect the subject line. Use this to get the reporter's attention - many reporter simply delete emails that are meaningless to them. Don't use gimmicks like "Hey, try this or Read me!" Those are not going to get you in front of your target. Use something meaningful that will get you noticed.
[Kristi Wertz] It's www.prnewswire.com. It's not free. But membership is very inexpensive, and then you pay a fee every time they send a release for you
[Tina Kersen] Yes, PR Newswire is effective - especially if you are looking to hit a particular industry area.
[Kristi Wertz] The only thing I don't like about PR Newswire is that they don't cover the smaller local papers.
[Tina Kersen] I believe membership is $100 a year - the same as Business Wire.
[Kristi Wertz] But if you have big news to release, like a merger, it's very effective. Yes, $100 a year is all we pay.
[Tina Kersen] Kristi, check with your rep - they can help you with that.
[Tina Kersen] However, in your local market, developing these relationships is key.
[Tina Kersen] Another thing to keep in mind is try to put your information in the body of the email if at all possible. You are trying to get their attention in your first email. There's no reason to spill the whole story right away and you will have time to send other details and graphics later. Nothing will irritate a reporter faster than if you send an attachment that 1. Takes forever to download and 2. They can't read. You never know which operating system a paper is using, so don't even try to send attachments until you do.
[Tina Kersen] And that brings me to press releases. When a reporter does request a press release, make sure it is concise and filled with relevant information for the story - not your company. A reporter wants the story, not an advertisement about your firm. You will get your reward later - sell the story now.
[Tina Kersen] Let me give you an example.
[Tina Kersen] Recently, I picked up an article from the Dallas Morning News. The topic was about how accountants beat tax season stress. The reporter was a staff reporter who I didn't know. I simply sent him an email and introduced myself and told him that I liked the article. I then told him that I knew of something kind of different that another accounting firm is doing. I then told him that I would love to be a resource for him and if he wanted more information to let me know.
[Tina Kersen] To my surprise, he emailed the next day. Usually, reporters don't return calls or emails very quickly because they are out and very busy - so don't be discouraged by this. I emailed him a few more details and then offered to send more information. He said he was very interested. So I did.
[Tina Kersen] Then I didn't hear back for several days, but I didn't call. That's not my job. My job is to make him aware of a story and his job is to decide if it is newsworthy. He called and scheduled an appointment.
[Tina Kersen] That's what it takes - action. Don't be afraid. The fact that you aren't sure what to do helps you be honest. Simply tell them that you aren't sure what the correct methods are, but you think you could be helpful. Reporters have told me that they truly appreciate the ability to trust a person's intentions.
[Tina Kersen] If you develop your reporter contacts, you will be able to see your firm's name in print more often than you ever dreamed. Most companies spend $2,000 - $5,000 per month to have a PR company on retainer. If you spend a small amount of your time, you will be able to accomplish similar coverage for a lot less than that!
[Caroline Thomas] Most of my exp. is in the banking industry - several PR officers from local banks and I got together to pitch stories about our industry that worked well to establish credibility and get our execs. quoted!
[Tina Kersen] And here's a tip for you marketing directors...
[Tina Kersen] Great job, Caroline! Your firm must be thrilled!
[Anne Stanton] 2,000-5,000 a month on a PR Firm doesn't always get you much. Many times you become a small fry to the PR Firm. Suggest exploring other options.
[Tina Kersen] And when you do get your name in lights, be sure to clip the articles and measure the inches so you can put a value on the advertising you helped your firm get for free. Numbers talk to accountants and, if you can quantify your trophy, that will help you show your value to the firm.
[Caroline Thomas] Well, I've only been in the accounting industry for a month - so we'll see if the same technique works!
[Tina Kersen] Caroline - that's right. I can't tell you how many times I talk with companies who are disillusioned with PR firms that aren't doing "anything."
[Session Moderator] Tina - you also can measure other ways, like asking referrals how they found out about you, right? If it's from a story in the paper, or other media, then you're a hit!
[Tina Kersen] Big companies can spend millions a year and $60K a year is just a drop in the bucket for some agencies.
[Tina Kersen] SM - good idea.
[Tina Kersen] What we've just discussed applies to press and the media. The difference between the media and the press is that the media needs to know what your story "looks" like. Make sure you paint a picture in the media's mind when you tell them about your story. Also, the media runs on different time lines.
[Anne Stanton] A referral field in your contact database helps but don't forget to have reports pull this information out.
[Caroline Thomas] Measuring column inches works well, so you can say "I've generated X amt. of exposure in # many publications this year - it's good at review time!
[Anne Stanton] What are other people doing now for low cost exposure?
[Tina Kersen] Yes - remember to think about review time all year long. Build value into the services you provide for your firm.
[Tina Kersen] These ideas do take your time, but the actual cost expenditure is low.
[David D. Hill] We spread out promotion announcements over a three month period to keep our name out in front of the community during the
[Tina Kersen] How did that work for you David?
[Tina Kersen] Another idea that costs little more than time is awards. Awards speak to employees, employers and clients. There's something about being able to say, this award-winning accounting firm - that helps sell the firm. There are so many awards events it's often hard to keep track of them all.
[David D. Hill] We have been doing it for a few years and it seems to work well as we get comments and the staff love their name in print.
[Tina Kersen] Yes, they do, don't they? It really promotes team/firm pride.
[Tina Kersen] What you will want to do is start with your local business journal. Scour the pages and make a list of all the awards events that you think your firm would qualify for. Next, make a list of awards events that individuals would qualify for. Look in industry areas, look at organizations such as the AICPA, look at civic organizations such as Chambers of Commerce or YWCA and you will find opportunities for your accountants and firm to gain recognition.
[Anne Stanton] We also send out press releases monthly. We have been doing this consistent release for over a year and it does work well!
[Tina Kersen] Great!
[Tina Kersen] Once you have completed one nomination form, you have the nuts and bolts to complete any others, so keep in mind that the original form is the investment. Of course, if you nominate individuals, that will be more labor intensive.
[Tina Kersen] Has anyone used this approach successfully?
[Tina Kersen] And when you think awards, think clients, too. Sometimes there are awards events that recognize the company who nominated a winner. That gives you a chance to get your name in front of business leaders, too.
[Tina Kersen] It helps you add that " value" for your clients as well.
[Anne Stanton] Good idea on nominating clients!
[Tina Kersen] Another thing you can do with a tight budget is develop a strategic partner program that is targeted for results.
[Caroline Thomas] Another idea that worked well, when I was in banking of course, was to keep a GIANT presentation check in each office and a camera. When donations happened the presentation check was there and so was the camera - the office managers would fill out the check, snap the photo, send the film to me w/ the who, what, when where and why and I'd do the press release and send it out to local media - sort of streamlined the process
[Tina Kersen] How many of you hold happy hours with bankers or attorneys?
[Kristi Wertz] We've done it once or twice. Once recently with a bank. It went well.
[Tina Kersen] Kristi, how did you measure the results? How do you decide if it went well or not?
[Kristi Wertz] Well, it was just more of a networking thing. I don't know that we really measured any specific results.
[Anne Stanton] I would expect that the results would be new clients compared to the cost of the lead.
[Kristi Wertz] We did give each banker a packet of info. about our services, and they seemed very appreciative. Kind of hard to tell how many clients it may or may not bring in.
[Tina Kersen] This is often how accounting firms approach these "networking" events - not to be critical - but they generally are more socially oriented. A get to know you meeting, so to speak.
[tommie] Tina, what is your thoughts on client /prospect newsletters? Buy one or do one in-house?
[Kristi Wertz] It was VERY social in nature.
[Mary Thomas] (Mary Thomas) Our firm has done several after hours events with the Chamber of Commerce, local bankers, and local attorneys. The results are hard to measure, but we do see results.
[Tina Kersen] Tommie, newsletters are only effective if people read them. Find out who's reading it and decide if you should fix what you have or stick with what you've got.
[Session Moderator] Tina - what about getting partners and staff involved in local community relations events and boards? Is that effective?
[Caroline Thomas] Has anyone else found that networking events are better at lunch - seems like after hours, everyone's tired of talking business.
[Tina Kersen] A newsletter isn't a presence if it's not valued by your clients. Use a fax-back form to measure if people are "reading," for example.
[Tina Kersen] When it comes to measuring the success of these networking events, look at how many referrals were generated as a result of your time?
[tommie] What tactic are you using on the fax-back to get them to fax back?
[Tina Kersen] Caroline - my experience is that each bank, law firm or insurance group has a "personality." Some do better in the morning, some lunch, and some dinner and drinks.
[Eileen Monesson] Does anyone use PDI's Newsletters. If so, do you find them effective?
[Tina Kersen] Tommie- offer free information that will help them personally or in their business. A records retention form, for example.
[Tina Kersen] Have you ever heard of that phrase, "We aimed at nothing and hit with amazing accuracy"?
[Tina Kersen] That's what these reception-cocktail hours do so well. It goes something like this:
[Tina Kersen] Ten accountants meet with ten bankers or attorneys and each person hears a different definition of the "perfect client" from each other person they talk with. Or worse, they end up "getting to know" each other for more than an hour and never even get to "who an ideal client is."
[Mary Thomas] (Mary Thomas) We have both types of newsletters - one that we prepare for our Agribusiness clients and prospects and another that is prepared by PDI and mailed to our clients. And, both have faxback forms. We offer additional free info.
[Joe Reevy] Hi from Britain. It seems the essence of it is to put yourself in their shoes and try to think what they'd like to hear
[Tina Kersen] It turns into where do your kids go to school.
[Tina Kersen] Or something other than business - that's how we "get to know each other."
[Tina Kersen] Joe- that's right. Keep in mind what the other person needs to know to help you and ask what you can do to help them.
[Tina Kersen] You get what you give. I think that's a Beatles lyric...
[Mary Thomas] (Mary Thomas) One thing that works well for our firm is to keep each member involved in a community group. Several of our staff members are leaders in their particular community organization.
[tommie] I find PDI's newsletters and niche guides very effective.
[Eileen Monesson] How can you get reporters to print your press release as you write it. ie unedited
[Tina Kersen] Good idea Mary - staying in the community eye is a great way to keep in touch.
[Mary Thomas] (Mary Thomas) Most reporters have to work with space limitations - they always seem to edit my press releases!
[Anne Stanton] You can't but if you give them a lot of information on the announced item they will write with more knowledge. You need to know when to give it however.
[Tina Kersen] Eileen, I'm afraid that ultimate control lies in the hands of the reporters. Some Internet sources, though, are printing press releases as is, I've heard.
[Tina Kersen] On press releases, keep it concise and simple. They will call for more details.
[Anne Stanton] The internet pages that let you post press releases - let you post your release. The key is finding the appropriate pages.
[Eileen Monesson] I have seen press releases with key phrase in bold and/or underlined. Is this the preferred method. Or doesn't matter?
[Joe Reevy] Most press releases are really dull tho' how do you pep them up?
[Session Moderator] I've also heard that it may be a good idea to put attach a background page or fact sheet related to the release for additional information.
[Anne Stanton] I add pictures if appropriate and relevant.
[Tina Kersen] What matters is the slant of the end story. You can underline all day long, but the reporter will decide what is news.
[Tina Kersen] And back to receptions... First, keep in mind that focusing your efforts doesn't mean that your cocktail social has to turn into a boring presentation. Your first mission is to paint a picture of your "A" clients. This picture should stick in their mind so they will know, without a doubt, what type of client you want.
[Tina Kersen] This is how you target your clients and lock in this description for your referral partners. They WANT to give you referrals.
[Tina Kersen] You know that because they are there spending their time with you. As Jerry McGuire says, "Help them, help you."
[Tina Kersen] And then it comes down to, "Show me the money."
[Tina Kersen] When the pavement hits the road, leads generated is your return on investment.
[Tina Kersen] Begin your picture with your client criteria. What do your clients look like? What do they say? What characteristics follow them? This is your chance to build a profile of your dream client. At the minimum, your client criteria should tell your referral partners:
[Tina Kersen] ? With what size company or estate do you regularly do business?
[Tina Kersen] With what type of clients have you had the most success? (entrepreneurs, publicly held companies)
[Tina Kersen] Do you have minimum standards for your clients? (minimum annual fees, size)
[Joe Reevy] You really have to get in the skin I think
[Joe Reevy] Think like they do
[Tina Kersen] Characteristics of successful clients. (Are they fun? Do they have good credit? Do they value your services?)
[Session Moderator] This is important because it ties into your goals related to media relations.
[Tina Kersen] Keep the client criteria short and bulleted. The adult brain can store the information easily and recall it just as quickly.
[Tina Kersen] This approach increased referrals by 600% at my former firm.
[Tina Kersen] It's powerful, targeted, and tactical.
[Tina Kersen] The reason this approach works is simple. It conveys a clear message for every person to hear and the format "gets down to business."
[Kristi Wertz] So should you actually give a presentation at the social event?
[Joe Reevy] It seems to be a matter of knowing where you are going with this and having a good system...am I right?
[Tina Kersen] Kristi-- a SHORT, to-the-point presentation sandwiched between get-to-know you time.
[Kristi Wertz] That's what I was wondering. We had thought about a presentation for our banker social but it just didn't seem to fit.
[Tina Kersen] Joe - yes, it's a system. Systematize your strategies and they can be repeated with or without you - that's what works.
[Anne Stanton] If you present set the chairs in a horseshoe format. Skip the classroom style which makes discussion difficult.
[Anne Stanton] Or small cocktail tables.
[Tina Kersen] The program I developed utilized several different people talking for 1-3 minutes each. You want to keep their attention while feeding them the information they need.
[Kristi Wertz] Our happy hour things are just small tables, and buffet, and mingle. There weren't even enough chairs for everyone.
[Tina Kersen] It doesn't need to be longer than 15 minutes - tops. No one likes going to long, drawn out presentations.
[Anne Stanton] What else are people doing on a low budget to get seen?
[Tina Kersen] In the typical mixer environment, you are relying on 20 different people to tell 20 other people what types of referrals they are looking to secure. The problem with that is it is rude. You want to "chit chat" first to get to know the person before you "ask for the referral." Once you find out about their children, the wife and the dog, you may not remember that the client that guy wants is the very type you just happen to be meeting with tomorrow meeting.
[Kristi Wertz] We co-sponsor a before-hours breakfast (monthly) with our local chamber for small businesses
[Tina Kersen] This gets people focused on referrals - fast. Generally the last half is spent swapping names.
[Tina Kersen] Yes, is there anything else that people are doing on a shoestring?
[Anne Stanton] Direct mailings to very specific people
[Tina Kersen] What type of results have you gained from this Anne?
[Joe Reevy] Telling people what you do (like the guy at the gas station) and giving them your card!!!
[Anne Stanton] It usually takes 3 letters but we do get results.
[Tina Kersen] Joe, I've heard of that - that's great!
[Tina Kersen] Do your firms require that you measure your successes?
[Anne Stanton] Picture business cards
[Joe Reevy] It is really strong. Just think how many people you meet a week who you never tell what you do...
[Tina Kersen] Is anyone utilizing the new CD ROM business cards?
[Tina Kersen] They are relatively inexpensive, too. About $2.50 each + production.
[Tina Kersen] They allow you to talk to your clients while embedding links to your web site.
[Mike Platt] What kind of reaction are you seeing to the CD Business cards Tina?
[Tina Kersen] You can get fancy or keep it simple - it's up to you.
[Anne Stanton] I would think you would have to get the credit card size ones. Like from Digicard.com
[Tina Kersen] So far, I haven't seen a lot of them in our market. I'm thinking that this year they will "hit" it big within our industry.
[Jami Fultz] I didn't think that was inexpensive. I'd be too worried about making sure that I gave it to a "great" prospect and, thus, miss a potential client.
[Tina Kersen] So far, I've seen mostly hi-tech companies utilizing them, but that's to be expected.
[Tina Kersen] Yes, Anne, that's the size I'm talking about.
[Anne Stanton] I would still not consider that low cost. 1000 business cards can go fast in the sales arena.
[Session Moderator] We've got about five minutes to go with this workshop: does anyone have any more questions for Tina?
[Tina Kersen] Jami, I can see your point, but if you get just one good-sized client, the cost is worth it.
[Eileen Monesson] What is the best shoe string marketing program you did?
[Tina Kersen] Plus, it could be a chance to differentiate your firm from your competitors.
[Jerry L Foster] I'd like to know if there's a low-cost Internet marketing avenue we should investigate.
[Tina Kersen] I would have to say for ROI, it was the targeted referral program.
[Eileen Monesson] What are the best internet site to post your press releases on?
[Tina Kersen] But for press and media recognition, it was the Tax Olympics. We were almost picked up by Good Morning America.
[Eileen Monesson] What did you do for the Tax Olympics?
[Tina Kersen] Jerry, I think that depends on what you want to accomplish.
[Tina Kersen] The tax olympics was an event aimed at relieving stress for the accountants.
[Anne Stanton] The chamber of commerce web sites will let you post free press releases many times.
[Tina Kersen] We used it to differentiate our firm in our market - we wanted to be the FUN accountants.
[Tina Kersen] We gained about 10 minutes of video/radio coverage.
[Joe Reevy] Not enough people dare to be different Tina
[Tina Kersen] That equaled about $40,000.
[Tina Kersen] Eileen, I'll have to defer to Anne on that one.
[Session Moderator] Ok Everyone - thanks for attending this week's workshop.
[Tina Kersen] Thanks all for being here this afternoon!
[Tina Kersen] I enjoyed it.
[Session Moderator] Tina - a special thanks to you!
[Mike Platt] Tina, thank you so much!
[Anne Stanton] www.marketingclick.com, www.prnews.com, www.gorillamarketing.com
[Session Moderator] Goodbye everyone.